Interview: [functional clothing lab]

This interview appeared in issue three of 502 bad gateway (a menswear fashion and lifestyle print publication): http://502badgateway.co.uk/

502: Do you want to give us an introduction to Functional Clothing Lab?

FCL: Functional CLothing Lab is just an outlet for whatever I want to make in the field of functional clothing, I mean, it’s pretty self explanatory which is why I chose the name. You know just say it in three words — Functional, Clothing, Lab — and that’s it. I’m just passionate about creating the solutions for some problems that I’ve found, which could be very niche problems but I think there are enough people on the globe to fill the niche. So, I’m concentrating on the gaps between the existing clothing solutions, because that’s more interesting than working on solutions that already exist.

502: What’s something that you don’t think you have a solution for?

FCL: I’ve had two things in the back of my mind for a long time, and I don’t have a lot of external projects right now, which is nice so I can refocus on them. For example, today it was raining like hell here, like tropical rain. So it made me think again about rainwear that is very suitable for hot and humid conditions, where you would not want to wear a classic rain jacket or rain pants. So I created a jacket that has sleeve volume and structure and a big opening at the elbow, so you have a lot of ventilation but also a lot of coverage. So you are still protected from the rain but because you don’t need to be protected from the cold, you actually need more ventilation.

I’m focusing on things that are not in huge demand and probably don’t exist on the market, but it’s still quite interesting to work with the solutions for it.

Another one is that I’m planning to travel soon for a month and a half. I’m going back to Russia to visit for the first time in two years. Of course, when a trip is upcoming, you always want to make so many new things. But it never happens, you can make maybe one thing or even zero most of the time. But I was sketching yesterday; a jumpsuit with detachable sleeves, detachable legs, detachable in the middle so that you can attach a skirt and also detachable insulation, which sounds like an extreme amount of variations, right? I can’t predict what I will encounter in Russia and I will go from place to place. It should cover me, but it’s also not an extremely commercial project, but they’re always more enjoyable to work on.

502: Whereabouts in Russia are you going?

FCL: I’m going to Moscow, everything happens through Moscow; you can never go directly somewhere else. I will spend some time there and then I’ll go to Siberia where my parents live. We also plan to do a big hike and camping trip in Siberia with my friends. So there’s another thing that I want to create more gear for.

502: Do you only wear things you make?

FCL: Pretty much. I make them because I really need them. When you’re a clothing designer, and I experienced this for many years, whenever you wear something cool everybody just asks if you made it but if it’s from another designer, you have to say “oh, no it’s from someone else”. It’s just easier. But the main reason is because it’s the only thing that really works for me, especially for a Greek summer, because Greeks who are used to their summer, can wear skinny, black pants in 35 degrees. I don’t know how they do that, I want to tear my skin off. So I’m trying to make clothes that don’t touch my body and just cover enough that people don’t think I’m naked. It’s just a design goal.

502: Are you aware of other brands or designers that you think are doing good stuff at the moment? Or are you very much detached from it?

I am pretty detached. I’m mostly in touch with other makers of my scale. I’d say a little bigger and some a little smaller. So just mostly independent people and not very much from the market. Someone that comes to mind is Abigail from Schusser Threads. She just recently released some long sleeve merino shirts that are made locally in Australia. Now she’s releasing rain wear for snowboarding and generally for backcountry. I get curious when I see personality and personal struggles that I can relate to, I guess. So I keep in touch with some designers and makers because we share the pain and tips and tricks and stuff like that.

502: So you’re all talking to each other.

FCL: It’s like a loose net that Instagram helps to connect because somehow you find this person or that person; it’s like polygons of people and connections but there’s not a centralised place where this does happen. I would love to do some kind of conference for gear makers, hosted in Greece because everybody will come! We can exchange experiences and do masterclasses for locals, I hope in the future something like this could happen

502: I remember seeing that on your website you talk about your long-term vision. Can you explain what is it?

FCL: I recently started to return to the idea that it’s something I should concentrate on, instead of trying to be a brand and do production in a conventional way or struggle with that. It’s something that I started thinking about and it’s something I’m super passionate about. So I’m super happy to share what I have in mind.

Generally the introductory words are: “decentralized local manufacturing of made to order technical clothing.”

Which could happen but it requires various pieces to fit. One would be a network of things that I call Soft Labs, which is like a fabrication lab, full of laser cutters and 3D printers and all the machines to manufacture hard goods, but the same for soft goods and anything made out of textiles. In the Soft Labs, which would be run by local enthusiasts, we’ll set up down blowing machines, a fabric cutter, seam taping machines for rain gear along with industrial sewing machines, a big cutting table all combined in one place along with more advanced technological tools that are inaccessible to single makers because it’s too expensive and too big often to have anywhere. You need to rent a huge space to have a down filling machine. It’s impossible.

So alongside this network of Soft Labs you also need patterns. There would be an online library of garment patterns, where you can choose your size and send it to laser cutter or CNC cutters and local makers help you put it together.

This would link in with another project that I’m working on. We haven’t released it, it’s in beta but we are working on it: a gear repair map. I talked about it on my account a few months ago but basically it’s where someone who wants to repair technical gear can find a local person who is proficient in these skills, because regular shops will not have equipment or fabric strips, in order to repair your outdoor gear.

So this kind of thing is happening now. But I think in the future, when this starts running, and the people who can repair garments are often people who can make as well, it’s already the starting point to something that can be part of this Soft Lab network.

502: What are your favorite pieces that you’ve made?

FCL: Depends on the weather but I think I would still say that the core warmer is my favourite because it’s one of the first ones and it still is one of the weirdest ones in a sense of how functional and how unusual it is. So that is still close to my heart. The Serma Coat as well, three in one, I wore it a lot last season. I love them all!

502: What kind of activities or outdoor stuff are you doing at the moment?

FCL: I actually bike more since I got an electric bike. I bike every day now and I run, but mostly for building endurance for mountains, because I like to go to the mountains and hike and rock climb when I’m there.

502: What are the mountains in Greece like?

FCL: They are nice in the sense that they’re very close because generally Greece is a small country [Kseniia is from Siberia remember] but quite mountainous, there is not much of a flat ground. So you can easily transition in like two hours. It starts as you arrive at the mountain with green foothills, even in the winter, it’s still green. Then you start, go up, you cross into the snow line and you can wear crampons and use ice axes. Then you go down and pass olive groves on the way back home. It’s beautiful because from a lot of mountains you can also see the sea because it’s also not that far. So it’s a combination. It’s quite beautiful.

502: How did you end up in Greece?

FCL: I met a Greek guy seven years ago and we just got married. Then we decided to move. I mean, he wanted to move back. We were living in the US for some time.

502: Is there like a functional clothing lab crew there and you’re all decked out in stuff that you’ve made?

I have gone to mountaineering and climbing schools here. So from there I met a small community here in Greece. It’s not as popular here, most of the people don’t even know that there is rock climbing in Greece. What you described, like a crew dressed in functional clothing lab, sometimes I dream of, but I try not to push people too much to wear what I make. when they ask me I’m extremely happy, but most of them it’s just one item here and there but I’m wearing everything.

502: I guess as well there’s not like a huge make your own gear kind of scene in Greece?

FCL: The straightforward answer is yes. There could be underground makers that I’ve not met who also think, oh, maybe there is no one here in Greece. But I’m also not connecting socially with that many other people and I’ve only been living in Greece for three years.

502: What do you call what you’re doing? Make Your Own Gear (MYOG) ? DIY? Or is it just Functional Clothing Lab?

I don’t call it exactly DIY or make your own gear because I had professional training in fashion. So I kind of feel that I can not play into that, but most of the things that I do now, I have learned through searching on subreddits or the MYOG community, like all the techniques where to get materials and what the fabric properties are. There is no official source of information or materials for the small-scale makers. The materials are mostly found in the shops that are tailored for the make your own gear community so I’m a part of that but I’m a part of that more in the sense that I try to share whatever techniques tech have developed. Like I have a YouTube channel with some tutorials, techniques specific to moral ultra light fabrics and things like that.

I myself feel strongly a part of that community, but as Functional Clothing Lab it’s more of an official endeavour.

502: So where did you train and how did you get from Siberia to the U.S.?

FCL: By going with the flow. First I moved from the Siberian town where I was born and grew up, one friend of mine decided that we needed to move to Saint Petersburg and took me along. So I moved to St. Petersburg where I studied the fashion industry and art. It was a more artful education for sure. You were supposed to be an artist and not a businessman and not a production person. And then another friend of mine said, let’s do a girl’s startup because all our male friends were more like tech or like hard science. She was in the U.S. at the time and somehow she dragged me, she made the project and helped me get a visa and then our startup didn’t really go anywhere but I already had the ticket in my hand, so decided to just go visit anyways. We randomly decided to go to San Francisco and there on the street, I met my husband and that’s how I stayed. That’s how I got into MYOG, the US is a more fertile ground for it because of accessibility of material and I could already get all this valuable information too.

San Francisco was the starting point for me to make all the ultralight and technical stuff, because it’s extremely unpredictable weather, it could be sunny and then it could be blowing and then the fog is coming and you’re freaking freezing. So you need something small and light for every situation and that is where the focus came from.

502: Are you an ultralight hiker? Do you count grams?

FCL: No, I’m not a gram counter. I’m more like a light hiker. When I can, I use ultralight materials. But I don’t obsess over it, so I can bring an extra apple if I need and not worry. If I need to do a three-day trip. I’ll try to shave off a bit, but I’m not really nerding over it.

502: In terms of attitude around sustainability, do you think there’s comparisons you can make between upcycling and MYOG/DIY, or do you think they’re kind of separate?

FCL: I would say generally, first of all ultralight gear is inherently sustainable because it’s ultralight. If you use a hundred grams to make a jacket versus five hundred grams; it’s like one jacket versus five jackets. So it’s like you create less by default because we count the waste by weight not the volum, the weight of virgin materials you use to create your stuff and the weight of materials that will eventually go to landfill.Then I think when you make your own gear you care so much more about it, you will keep it out of landfill as long as you can and you know how to repair it as well. I actually would be curious to ask people, have they ever thrown away something they’ve made themselves? I think they’d keep it in the closet forever, and give it to their grandchildren. I think it’s just hard enough already to try to get all the material and get into sewing when you have never sewn before and you just want to make your gear. Sustainability comes when you have solved everything else, otherwise it’s almost a luxury to add sustainability because it becomes too much of a hassle when you’re starting out.

502: It feels like with the independent makers we’re interested in, a lot of them are making technical outdoor wear. Making those kinds of clothes seems a lot less approachable, like when you pick up something like a bag from Osprey — where would you even begin with that? But seeing you show people where you would begin, and release patterns, and upload tutorials, it feels like you are trying to be the decentralised system you mentioned earlier.

FCL: A hundred years ago, there were no ready-made clothes. Everything was made to order and everything was made to fit you. There’s a lot of complaints about fit in outdoor clothes, clothes in general but outdoor especially. I’m writing an article about women’s performance-wear and I’ve done my research. I’ve asked women in some subreddits, some athletes, rock climbing or cycling women and women in general that like extreme sports and there is so much complaining about the fit. I think if only it would be like a hundred years ago, there would be a local tailor in your city. You go, and they make clothes for you,or they see you and can adjust for you. And it makes sense, but people don’t even think like that anymore. If they bought something and it’s big somewhere, they don’t even think about going to the tailor to adjust it to them. We expect to be delivered a ready solution that will fit our bodies. But I think it’s almost an unsolvable problem. One way of solving it is to have local manufacturers that can see you and adjust for you. With bodies you find so much variation, it’s hard to create mass manufactured clothes that would fit everyone. The answer should be a local one. We just got spoiled.

I think it’s sobering but as well, I think clothing should be expensive. It cannot cost how it costs now, it doesn’t make sense. It’s like it’s produced on another planet where some other creatures live different lives. You don’t even think about them as a human who should have the same life as you.

502: What’s the article you’re writing gonna say? That the fit is bad for all women’s activewear?

FCL: No no, I’m trying to keep positive, analyzing what women’s performance-wear is, because it is largely adopted men’s clothing. I mean, still, even though now there is a lot more effort going into making clothing for women’s frames or to fit women. But I still heard a lot of pain from women that are complaining that it still doesn’t fit our bodies. Still not thinking enough about how different our bodies could be. Generally I think there is much more variety in female bodies than in male bodies and there is still a stereotype for slim athletic people who climb or cycle. I’m just trying to analyse what performance womenswear is, why we are talking about women’s wear separately from human performance wear.

502: Where do you think decisions about this are being made?

I think that it must be a strong influence of marketing teams to decide right sizes and of course it’s not as easy in an economical sense; the more sizes you order the harder it is for you to sell stock so behind it there are economical reasons why companies don’t do that. I think that clothing should be more expensive and then this rise in price would cover the risks.In design departments, I’m also curious, I don’t know that much because I’m a little bit disconnected from that world, but I don’t know how often the design departments that do women’s clothes are really women and how often, and even if maybe the designer is not important, but do they test, or even ask women to try and just report back. I don’t know if it’s a common practice with testing — Patagonia certainly does it, The North Face probably does it but anything smaller or not so developed as a company. Maybe they’re not even doing that.

502: Can you bring that attitude to buying less but better into the mainstream? I think that’s like very much going to be the challenge of our generation and our time, especially in an environmental context. Will enough of the ideas get through and make enough change to actually make a difference.

FCL: Maybe the question is if the mainstream should exist at all, maybe the mainstream should disappear. Maybe we should just disconnect from that. I think you’re also talking about a small layer of people. It’s maybe something that all people who are around you and around me are aware of but we are still a tiny part. Changing the mass consciousness is something that I wish was possible.

502: Clearly you care about sustainability, but it feels like there’s a trade off in outdoor wear and outdoor people wanting the right equipment, but the materials used in that equipment being very synthetic and not sustainable necessarily. How do you resolve that conflict?

FCL: I kind of just ignore it because it’s impossible, you’re like: “I’m going to cut this fabric but no, I shouldn’t because I will create waste”. It’s a difficult one. My recent move towards releasing patterns, going digital and not actually producing the thing is partially in that direction as well. So the people produce what they need to themselves and they’re responsible. One friend of mine has an opinion that we shouldn’t be, shouldn’t be even sorting the garbage because in a hundred or two hundred years we will have robots or bacterias or some technological solutions that will just clean up the planet and then he can concentrate on more cosmic scale problems after that.

502: Do you know of any materials that tick both boxes that you’re aware of or interested in?

Well, I think they exist. It’s just that I don’t have access to them as a small company. I mean, if you go to some fabric fair like ISPO there will be some developments from some companies and recyclability is a very questionable thing because you know, for a garment to be recyclable, it has to be entirely made from the same chemical. Like a polyester jacket should have polyester everything and that has not really been achieved or just one garment exists. If it is one chemical then it can be melted down and spun again.I would like to access materials made from algae. Algae materials or there are materials that are made from leftover milk and it’s silky and very nice, but these are also experimental. You can find articles and learn about them, however, finding actual material to work with and source is still a huge problem for small companies.

That reminds me about one fabric that is actually very old: silk. Because it could be sustainable and I think silk is a windbreaker. What makes a fabric a windbreaker is when it has a smooth fiber. It can be woven very tightly together. I mean, parachutes were made from silk — it cuts the wind. So I was thinking about creating, a little more summer wear from silk. That would be a little more sustainable because it is biodegradable and only the zippers would be problem still.

I think merino wool is the king now of all the sustainable and outdoor materials. People are raving about it, but mostly I think natural materials are still okay for technical clothing for warmer climates. If they still perform well, like linen or hemp for humid conditions then that material is still better than manmade fibers.

502: I saw a coat made from seal intestine in an exhibition of clothing of people native to the North Pole.

FCL: I read about those! I heard that they were quite tricky because they need to be stored correctly and be wet when you put them on. Imagine how many seals you would need to produce a North Face Volume though.

502: Oh my god, yeah the scale is the issue, whether you’re making 5 million t-shirts or 5 million seal skin suits. I also really wanted to try out the sun glasses.

FCL: I was really interested in trying those glasses on, I was reading a lot about South Pole exploration recently.

I think there is a huge misconception about synthetic material being inherently hot. It’s a matter of weave and the texturisation of the fiber itself because you can now find nylon t-shirts that feel like cotton because the fiber was made to mimic cotton: it’s more hairy, not just smooth. So basically it’s just the amount of air it can trap or air it can let pass through. Since I moved to Greece I’ve been very interested in hot weather functional clothing but there is not a lot of development in that. There is a huge amount of clothing for cold rainy conditions, but for summer it’s usually shorts with a relatively slim fit, short sleeves, a cap or long trousers which doesn’t cut it for summer everywhere. I started looking at what the people in the desert wore for for centuries and centuries. What are the functional solutions that work there and outdoor clothing doesn’t work for that environment, and neither do most materials. Nobody develops material specifically that works very well in a hot climate. People that live in those places wear long robes with unrestricted airflow along the body. A lot of times in central Asia, they wear quite thick, insulating clothes which insulates you from the heat because your body is colder than your environment, but then you also can’t move too much. But the solution basically is the unrestricted airflow around the body so tight fitting shorts and pants don’t work so it should be one piece like a dress or a robe basically and not touch your body. Moisture-wicking works but in the certain range of temperature above 25, it still makes you more hot even if it wicks your sweat away. For sweat wicking to work it has to be tight to the skin, above 25 that doesn’t help.

502: What are Schoeller fabrics?

FCL: So Schoeller is a fabric manufacturer in Switzerland that is just quite high standard for sustainability and pollution, because they actually manufacture in Switzerland, so they have regulations. I was lucky enough before all the pandemic started, they organize four times a year or five, they organise a fabric factory sale when you go there in Sablenz, it’s a small town where the factory is located. They just have one room full of rolls of fabrics.

502: So did you drive or fly?

FCL: I hiked. I combined a few days’ journey on the train and hiking, I was in Italy and had four days before the event. So I said, I will do a long hike and get my backpack and I was hoping I would stuff all the fabrics in my backpack and then fly home with it. But I had to buy a suitcase because I couldn’t carry it, it was like 23kg or so. I still have a bunch of it because they’re so precious. I don’t use them because the quality is so good, but I’m a fabric hoarder. I have fabrics from Russia still today that I’ve hauled through all the continents with me.